Ancestors of Baron DE THIERRY

De Thierry Families in New Zealand
www.lynly.gen.nz/index.htm
Ancestors of Baron DE THIERRY
Charles Antoine DE THIERRY and Mm DE LAVILLE
(Weblink DT1 Ancestors of Baron)
Charles Antoine DE THIERRY
B Europe
D Europe or England
M about 1788 Parish
Marie Louise Pierrette DE LAVILLE
B Europe
D Europe or England
Children:
1. Caroline DE THIERRY born about 1791 Laque at the Orange palace Holland died 1848
2. Charles Philip Hippolytus DE THIERRY born about 23 April 1793 Grave Holland died
1864 Auckland New Zealand
3. Louis DE THIERRY born 1795 in Woodford Bridge London died 1863
4. Francis DE THIERRY born 1797 in London died 1842
5. James DE THIERRY born 1805 in London died 1855
6. Frederick DE THIERRY born 1807 in London died 1865
The family history of Baron
Charles Antoine DE THIERRY and Mm DE LAVILLE
Charles Antoine DE THIERRY during period 1788 married (Mm) Marie Louise Pierrette de
LAVILLE daughter of Marquis de Monbion on Marie Antionettes Bounty, Paris. Soon after
they fled to Holland to escape mobs of Paris.
In Paris in March 1788 the mobs of commoners had sent most of the French Royalists to
Lady Guillotine including King Richard. Young Baron DE THIERRY set himself the task of
weeding out the traitors from the Royalists.
The widow Mm DE LAVILLE, daughter of the Marquis DE MONBION, came to Paris to see
her daughter married on Marie Antoinettes Bounty met a different fate. She took refuge in a
Paris Church. Fifteen pikes pinned her to the Alter as this terrified woman begged for mercy.
Mobs of commoners would gather each day to watch and cheer as each Royalist lost his
head. The first DE THIERRY to lose his head does so in 1792 and before the year is out 14
more of the DE THIERRY family met with the same fate.
Young Baron DE THIERRY and his newly wed wife Marie were the only DE THIERRY to
escape the guillotines. They were safely in Grave, Holland when King Louis was beheaded.
She was heavily in child at this time.
Charles and Marie oldest child Caroline DE THIERRY was born about 1791 in Laque at the
Orange palace Holland just after her parents fled from the Paris mobs.
Charles and Marie had a son Charles Philip Hippolytus DE THIERRY who was born about
23 April 1793 in Grave Holland.
The DE THIERRY family left Holland and arrived in England on 14 November 1794 and by
1795 the family were living in Woodford Bridge.
Ancestors of Baron compiled by Lynly Lessels Yates updated June 2009
1
De Thierry Families in New Zealand
www.lynly.gen.nz/index.htm
It was upon their arrival in England that Charles started to use the title of BARON.
The Baron and Marie had a son Louis DE THIERRY who was born about 1795 in Woodford
Bridge London.
In 1796 the Baron took his oldest son Charles then aged 3 years to visit Comte d’ARTOIS
the younger brother of King Louis XVI of France who was living at Holyrood House in
Edinburgh Scotland. It was here that Charles became the Godson of Comte d’Artois.
Between 1796 and 1802 the De Thierry family lived in various areas of Southern England.
Other homes included 1796 Marylebone Park, No 1 & 4 New Road London 1798 an
apartment in Northern Street near Great Portland Road London, later Weymouth, Bath and
Blanford and returning to London around 1801.
The Baron and Baroness had a son Francis DE THIERRY who was born about 1797 in
England.
The Baron and Baroness had a son James DE THIERRY who was born about 1804 in
England.
The Baron and Baroness had a son Frederick DE THIERRY who was born about 1807 in
England.
Someone said that the Baron and Baroness had another child Cecile DE THIERRY who was
born in London and died of typhoid but I have been unable to located information
confirmation.
The Baron moved back to France and around 1814 and the Baroness remained in Paris
when the Baron returned to England.
In 1820 the Baron was living alone in England.
The Baron and Baroness died in either France or England but dates and details are
unknown.
Baron and Baroness DE THIERRY his children and descendants
1- Caroline DE THIERRY born about 1791 Laque at the Orange palace Holland died 1848
1st married 1808 Charles Antoine Pierre Henri Vicomte DE FROTTE born died 1813
Portugal 2nd married January 1821 in London Gardozo Pinto TAVERA born died 1882
Oporto and Lisbon
1-1- Georgina DE FROTTE born 1809 died married 1825 Mr BATTIER
1-1-1- Male BATTIER
1-1-2- Male BATTIER
1-1-3- Georgina BATTIER born died married Nouno Bento de Brito TABORDO
Caroline first married very young about 1808 when she was 17 Charles Antoine Pierre Henri
Vicomte DE FROTTE half brother of the Royalist General Assassinated by the police of
Napoleon in 1880. The marriage was not recognized by the FROTTE family. FROTTE was
a captain paymaster in the regiment of the Duke of Brunswick in the service of Great Britain
and was killed in Portugal in 1813. He left a daughter Georgina born in 1809. Caroline
received a widow’s pension from the British Government and remarried Gardozo Pinto
Ancestors of Baron compiled by Lynly Lessels Yates updated June 2009
2
De Thierry Families in New Zealand
www.lynly.gen.nz/index.htm
TAVERA in January 1821 in London. TAVERA was a rich landed proprietor in Portugal in
the Amarantha district about a dozen kilometres from Oporto. He took part in the retreat
from Moscow in one of the two regiments of cavalry of the famous Portuguese Legion
commanded by General Don Pedro dal Meida, Marquis da Lordna. He was drowned in 1882
between Oporto and Lisbon and his wife inherited his estate. In the meantime Georgina had
been brought up at Worthing near Brighton and in 1825 married one BATTIER ex-officer of
the British cavalry at the British Embassy in Paris the only witness who signed the marriage
contract being Laly-TOLLENDAL an old friend of the family. A few years later Georgina lost
her husband and was left with three children, two boys and a girl also named Georgina.
Nothing is known of what happened to the boys but Georgina I and Georgina II first went to
Lisbon to live with Caroline but mother and daughter proved incompatible and finally
separated. Georgina II married Nouno Bento de Brito TABORDO ancestor of the present
Count of Castello BRANCO.
(Reference Sovereign Chief A Biography of Baron De Thierry by J D Raeside page 344 published 1977 The Caxton Press
Christchurch)
2- Charles Philip Hippolytus DE THIERRY born about April 1793 Grave Holland died 08
July 1864 Auckland buried Symonds cemetery Auckland NZ married about 08 May 1819
England Emilie/Emily Mary RUDGE born England died about 1856 Auckland buried
Symonds cemetery Auckland NZ
2-1- Charles Thomas Frederick DE THIERRY born about 1820 Cambridge England
2-2- Richard Louis Francis James DE THIERRY born about 1821 Cambridge England
2-3- George DE THIERRY born about 1825 Paris France
2-4- Isabella Margaret DE THIERRY born 03 January 1828 New York America
2-5- William John DE THIERRY born 10 September 1830 Grundy Row Baltimore America
Charles later used the title of Baron and along with his family they settled in New Zealand
where there are numerous descendants of Baron DE THIERRY.
This is where the DE THIERRY families of New Zealand Genealogy begin.
3- Louis DE THIERRY born about 1795 in London and died about 1863 married Frances
ALLEN born died
3-1- Male DE THIERRY born died
3-2- DE THIERRY
Louis became a captain in the Royal Marines in 1810 to 1826. He took part in the American
war in 1812. Some time after 1826 Louis retired from the Royal Marines (invalided out) and
married Frances ALLEN reputed to be a natural daughter of George the First. If this was so
her mother could well have been a rival of Daphne du Maurier. Louis eventually in Genoa
where he dealt wholesale in coal from Cardiff a business that was continued by one of his
sons. The business prospered but in the hands of his children Louis’ fortune was quickly
dissipated the business foundered and the family dispersed. Some returned to England and
some remained in Italy. It is said that some emigrated to Canada and settled in or near
Vancouver.
(Reference Sovereign Chief A Biography of Baron De Thierry by J D Raeside page 344 published 1977 The Caxton Press
Christchurch)
George the First 1714-1727, son of Sophia, maternal granddaughter of James I, and Ernest
Augustus, elector of Hanover in the reign of the House of Hanover
Ancestors of Baron compiled by Lynly Lessels Yates updated June 2009
3
De Thierry Families in New Zealand
www.lynly.gen.nz/index.htm
(Reference Handbook of Kings and Queens by John E. Morby)
4- Francois DE THIERRY born about 1797 in London and died 1842 married about 1839
Elizabeth DUNCAN born Scotland died
4-1- Female DE THIERRY born 1840 Parish died 1841
4-2- Male DE THIERRY born died married
Francis became a cadar in the navy about the same time as his brother. As a former
midshipman in the Royal Navy he left the Navy and devoted himself to promoting his brother
Charles Philippes’s schemes. From 1823 to 1837 he was attached to the French
Department of Foreign Affairs for a time as Cabinet Courier to Portugal (about 1830) and
possibly also may have been appointed to some post in Baltimore. He was active in his
brother’s affairs between 1837 and 1842 when de Thierry was agitating for French support
for his New Zealand venture. Francis was a friend of D’ANTRAIGUES and married a
Scottish lady about 1839 Elizabeth DUNCAN. A daughter born in Paris in 1840 survived
only one year but a son born a little later was more fortunate. Francis was ruined by the
collapse of DE THIERRY’s schemes and took his own life in 1842.
(Reference Sovereign Chief A Biography of Baron De Thierry by J D Raeside page 344 published 1977 The Caxton Press
Christchurch)
5- James DE THIERRY born 1805 in London died 1855 married 1st Alexandrine Francoise
Dieudonne de Gaudechart DE QUERRIEU born died 1842 (6 issue) married 2nd 1851
Irma LOMPREDE born about 1829 I’Ariege died
5-1- Males (3) & Females (3) DE THIERRY born between 1830 to 1842 Creil Chantilly
5-2- Males (3) & Females (3) DE THIERRY born between 1830 to 1842 Creil Chantilly
5-3- Males (3) & Females (3) DE THIERRY born between 1830 to 1842 Creil Chantilly
5-4- Males (3) & Females (3) DE THIERRY born between 1830 to 1842 Creil Chantilly
5-5- Males (3) & Females (3) DE THIERRY born between 1830 to 1842 Creil Chantilly
5-6- Males (3) & Females (3) DE THIERRY born between 1830 to 1842 Creil Chantilly
James DE THIERRY known as the Chevalier DE THIERRY married Alexandrine Francoise
Dieudonne de Gaudechart DE QUERRIEU who was allied to the Rohan Rochefort family.
She was related in one way or another to most of the royal houses of Europe including the
House of Hapsburg. Between 1830 and 1842 he had three daughters and three sons and
appears to have led a very settled left at Creil near Chantilly. In 1842 James lost his wife. In
1851 he married again this time 1851 Irma LOMPREDE a brunette of 22 or 23 from I’Ariege
who appears to have belonged to a different social stratum from that of his first wife. This
second marriage was regarded by the rest of the family as a folly only a part compensated
by James financial independence.
(Reference Sovereign Chief A Biography of Baron De Thierry by J D Raeside page 344 published 1977 The Caxton Press
Christchurch)
6- Frederick Auguste DE THIERRY born 1807 in London died 1865 married 1st about 1827
Ann JOSEPH born died (1 Issue) married 2nd Anne Sophie Pauline ROLAND born died
1860 (1 Issue) married 3rd Francoise Pauline PAQUEREAU born died
6-1- Georgina DE THIERRY born about 12 November 1828 married 1850 Jean Baptiste
Leon de la Blanchardie De Laudeypie
6-2- Isabelle DE THIERRY born died young
Ancestors of Baron compiled by Lynly Lessels Yates updated June 2009
4
De Thierry Families in New Zealand
www.lynly.gen.nz/index.htm
Frederick Auguste who also styled himself Chevalier DE THIERRY was appointed Cabinet
Courier by de MOLE and remained in the Department of Foreign Affairs for more than 30
years serving mainly in Russia and Portugal. He married a certain Ann JOSEPH in 1827 or
1828 but his wife left him with his daughter Georgina born in November 12 1828. He
subsequently married Anne Sophie Pauline ROLAND from whom he had a second daughter
Isabelle that did not survive. In 1850 his daughter Georgina married an officer of the Army of
Africa, Jean Baptiste Leon de la Blanchardie De Laudeypie. Frederick was left a widower
again in 1860 and married once more this time to a widow Francoise Pauline PAQUEREAU.
(Reference Sovereign Chief A Biography of Baron De Thierry by J D Raeside page 344 published 1977 The Caxton Press
Christchurch)
Miscellaneous DE THIERRY information
• The order of Baronage stated is only partly correct.
1st Baron Charles Antoine DE THEIRRY
2nd Baron Charles Philippe DE THEIRRY
3rd Baron Charles Thomas DE THEIRRY
4th Baron Charles Richard DE THEIRRY (declined)
4th Baron Frederick James DE THEIRRY
5th Baron Lionel Nye DE THEIRRY (on the death of Lionel Nye on 28 November 1941 the
senior male line was extinct, the Baronage passed to the eldest male descent of the
Baron Charles Philippe’s second son George Hammond I Line)
6th Baron George Hammond DE THEIRRY
7th Baron Charles Harvey DE THEIRRY
8th Baron Reynolds Harvey DE THEIRRY alias Boy of Pirongia
The Baron Charles Philippe Hippolyte de THIERRY was not able to prove his line of descent
from the de THIERRY family. As a consequence of this the ancestors stated must be view
with scepticism. In the absence of real evidence circumstantial evidence is only acceptable
when a specific statement is collaborated by repetition of the same statements by a number
of unrelated sources. Any Family tree that deviates from this formula is worthless.
A comment made about the Baron Charles Philippe de THIERRY and attributed to the
Author of “Sovereign Chief A Biography of Baron de THIERRY Mr J D REESIDE who said
“When de Thierry had a pen in his hands he could transport himself into a world of Fantasy He could write and believe the most outrageous fancies and indulge in the most
unscrupulous inventions.”
Miscellaneous DE THIERRY transcripts by Country
ENGLAND, WALES and SCOTLAND
Birth registration England
• Charles Francis DE THIERRY born 1842 March quarter Bermondsey district Surrey
volume 4 page 27
• Albert Victor DE THIERRY born 1871 June quarter Westminster district London
Middlesex volume 1a page 424
• Alice Annie I DE THIERRY born 1872 September quarter Westminster district London
Middlesex volume 1a page 44
Ancestors of Baron compiled by Lynly Lessels Yates updated June 2009
5
De Thierry Families in New Zealand
•
•
www.lynly.gen.nz/index.htm
Emmeline Ruth DE THIERRY died 1901 June quarter Cardiff district Glamorgan
Monmouthshire volume 11a page 420
Aura R_Amond DE THIERRY born 1910 June quarter Ellham district Kent volume 2a
page 1126
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry birth registration England)
Death registration England
• Philippe DE THIERRY born about 1827 died 1887 Pancras district London Middlesex
volume 1b page 109
• Charles Francis DE THIERRY died 1842 Bermondsey district Surrey volume 4 page 9
• Arthur Marcus Redford DE THIERRY died 1846 Lambeth district Greater London,
London Surrey
• Arthur Marquis Redford DE THIERRY died 1846 Lambeth district Greater London,
London Surrey volume 4 page 174
• Frederick Louis DE THIERRY born about 1868 died 1893 Pancras district London
Middlesex volume 1b page 36
• Emmeline Ruth DE THIERRY born about 1901 died 1901 Cardiff district Glamorgan
Monmouthshire volume 11a page 209
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry death registration England)
Marriage registration England
• Charles Francis DE THIERRY married 1839 December quarter volume 2 page 49
Holborn district London Middlesex
• Elizabeth DE THIERRY and Elizabeth DETHIERRY married 1849 September quarter
volume 4 page 389 Lambeth district Greater London, London Surrey
• Edward DE THIERRY married 1863 June quarter volume 10b page 193 Newcastle Upon
Tyne district Northumberland Tyne and Wear
• Charles F DE THIERRY married 1868 volume 1a page 748 St James Westminster
district Middlesex
• Philippe DE THIERRY married 1879 volume 1b page 75 Pancras district London
Middlesex
• Phillipe DE THIERRY married 1879 volume 1b page 75 Pancras district London
Middlesex
• Albert Edward E L DE THIERRY married 1886 March quarter volume 10a page 793
South Shields district Durham Tyne and Wear
• Fanny DE THIERRY married 1900 September quarter volume 1a page 56 Paddington
district Greater London, London Middlesex
• Martin DE THIERRY married 1918 June quarter volume 2b page 1472 Christchurch
district Hampshire to Gladys E CASTLE
• Robert L H DE THIERRY married 1923 September quarter volume 1a page 1333 St
Martin district London to PHILLIPS
• Robert L H DE THIERRY married 1923 September quarter volume 1a page 1333 St
Martin district London to HUGHES
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry marriage registration England)
ENGLAND CENSUS
1841 Census Ely Place Saffron Hill St Andrew Holborn Ossulstone Middlesex England
• C L DE THIERRY age 40 (born about 1810) Independent born Middlesex London
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry 1841 census Saffron Hill St Andrew Holborn Ossulstone Middlesex England)
1861 Census 9 Westmartin Terrace St John Westgate Northumberland England
• Edward DE THIERRY Lodger unmarried age 19 (born about 1842) Commercial Clerk
born Italy (British Subject)
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry 1861 census St John Westgate Northumberland England ED10 household
112)
Ancestors of Baron compiled by Lynly Lessels Yates updated June 2009
6
De Thierry Families in New Zealand
www.lynly.gen.nz/index.htm
1881 Census 18 Blacket Place Newington district Edinburgh St Cuthberts Midlothian
Scotland
• Eliza DE THIERRY age 22 (born about 1859) born Italy (British Subject)
• Beatrice GARTLY age 20
• Jessie MCKAY age 29
• Jemima GRANT age 22
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry 1881 census Scotland Edinburgh ED75 household 70 Line 5registration
number 685/5)
1901 census 44 Plasturton Gardens St John Cardiff Wales
• Albert E DE THIERRY head married age 40 (born about 1861) Coal Merchant Manager
born Lyhorn (British subject) Italy speaks English
• Emmade DE THIERRY wife married age 41 (born about 1860) born South Shields
Durham England speaks English
• Robert L DE THIERRY son single age 12 (born about 1889) born Italy (British subject)
speaks English
• John L DE THIERRY son age 10 (born about 1891) born Italy (British subject) speaks
English
• May DE THIERRY daughter age 7 (born about 1894) born Italy (British subject) speaks
English
• Matilda SENN visitor single age 19 born Italy (Swiss) speaks French
• Sophia JENKINS servant single age 20 General servant born Solva (British subject) Pem
speaks both
• Maud CARMER servant single age 21 General servant born Colchester (British subject)
Essex English
• Mabel DE THIERRY visitor single age 30 (born about 1871) born Italy (British subject)
speaks English
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry 1901 census St John Cardiff West Cardiff Wales ED2 household 219)
Military British Army United Kingdom
• John Lawrence DE THIERRY 21st Royal Fusiliers Tank Corps regimental number 7679
Lieutenant temporary Captain address Fairfield Mountjoy Road Huddersfield served in
France during World War One Medal 1914-18 Star, Victory Medal & British War Medal
issued 07 October 1921
• R L DE THIERRY 21st Royal Fusiliers Tank Corps regimental number M/7680 rank
temporary Lieutenant address Via Loreuzo, Steello, 8/3 Ginoa Italy then C/- Miss
Middlemost 6 Mountjoy Road Huddersfield served in France during World War One
Medal 1914-18 Star, Victory Medal & British War Medal issued 08 October 1920
AUSTRALIA
“Orion” shipping line Orient Steam Navigation Company Ltd departure Sydney Australia
arrived 05 October 1956 landed at Southampton England
Voyage Sydney, Hobart, Melbourne, Adelaide and Fremantle ship official number 6818/01
• R L DE THIERRY 1st class travel number 221 embarked Fremantle Male date of birth 04
August 1888 (age 68 years) married address in England Penrhyndeudraeth
Merionethshire occupation Retired Citizen of England last permanent residence United
Kingdom country of intended residence United Kingdom Stay permanent UK
• J C DE THIERRY 1st class travel number 222 female birth date 20 October 1883 (age 72
years) married address in England Penrhyndeudraeth Merionethshire occupation Retired
Citizen of England last permanent residence United Kingdom country of intended
residence United Kingdom Stay permanent UK
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry website)
“Osterley” British ship arrived 10 April 1922 Sydney New South Wales Australia
• Mr J L DE THIERRY
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry website)
Ancestors of Baron compiled by Lynly Lessels Yates updated June 2009
7
De Thierry Families in New Zealand
www.lynly.gen.nz/index.htm
1930 Electoral Roll Darlinghurst East Sydney New South Wales Australia
• Henry Thomas DE THIERRY 35 King’s Cross Road Carpenter male
CANADA
• Francois Nicolas De Chassin DE THIERRY Officer died 1755 Quebec Louisbourg Ile
Royale
(Reference National Library of NZ Ancestry Canadian Genealogy Index untitled manuscript Volume 115, 116)
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
New York passengers lists 1820 – 1957
• George DE THIERRY arrival date 03 April 1927 age 64 years born about 1863 Genoa
Italy Professor port of departure Bremen Germany 22 March 1927 Nationality German
Ship “Munchen” also Maria DE THIERRY age 62 female married wife born CSR Prag
Nationality German
• Isa DE THIERRY arrival date 22 December 1932 age 47 years female born about 1885
Genoa Italy port of departure Genoa Italy Nationality English Ship “Rex”
• Robert DE THIERRY arrival date 06 January 1932 age 43 years 3 months born about
1888 Milan Italy occupation Engineer port of departure Liverpool England Nationality
Italian Ship “Bedford”
• Claudia DE THIERRY arrival date 26 September 1950 age 41 born about 1909 port of
departure Rome Italy Nationality Italian address 58 East 79 N.Y.C.
• Claudia DE THIERRY arrival date 29 September 1951 age 42 years born about 1909
port of departure Rome Italy Nationality Italian address 58 East 79th Street N.Y.C.
• Claudina Anna Maria DE THIERRY arrival date 18 October 1948 age 39 years born
about 1909 port of departure Genoa Italy Nationality Italian Ship “Nea Hellas” address
C/- Hugh J Chisholm Woodbury Conn
• Helma M DE THIERRY arrival date 09 September 1953 port of departure Genoa Italy
Ship “Homeland”
1900 United States Federal Census Kings New York
• Chas DE THIERRY head age 56 born 1844 England arrived USA 1874 occupation
Chandelier manufacturer and wife Maria DE THIERRY age 44 born 1856 South Carolina
New York
1900 United States Federal Census Kings New York
• Alfousa DE THIERRY boarder widower age 50 born 1849 France father born France
Mother born France arrived USA 1880 occupation Saddle manufacturer and son Leo F
DE THIERRY age 12 born 1887 Maryland father born France mother born Maryland
occupation at School
Ancestors of Baron compiled by Lynly Lessels Yates updated June 2009
8