national - McMillan

Satisfactio
Satisfacti
guaranteed
guaranteed
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ne of Norman Yusim’s clients called the law society about him. A nightmare scenario? Just the opposite — he phoned to praise him.
It’s true — one client of Yusim, a family lawyer with Fillmore Riley in
Winnipeg, was so pleased with the services he received that he called the
Law Society of Manitoba to register a compliment. The client was giving
voice to something that many people feel but don’t often say: they think
their lawyers are excellent.
Very simply, the vast majority of lawyers are hardworking, decent people
NATIONAL
SEPTEMBER
2005
on
Too often, we only hear about the
lawyer-client relationships that
have gone wrong, while tens of
thousands of great relationships
never get reported or discussed.
National profiles four of the many
Canadian lawyers whose clients
think the world of them, and finds
common threads that link all these
satisfying relationships.
By Bill Rogers
lawyer and client? National decided to find
examples of these relationships, and to interview both lawyer and client about what makes
them tick.
The four profiles that follow demonstrate
what great lawyer-client relationships all have
in common:
• The client feels like he or she is the lawyer’s
sole client — the level of service is personal
and the level of dedication to the client’s
needs is substantial.
• The lawyer is a calm and steadying presence in the client’s often-chaotic life, providing reassurance and strength in difficult
or challenging times. The lawyer inspires
confidence.
• The lawyer knows the client’s needs — in
the commercial context, the lawyer understands the client’s business and cares enough
to keep informed about it.
• The client and the lawyer are on the same
page — they have realistic expectations about
the relationship, they communicate often,
and they listen to one another.
The fact is, there are plenty of happy
clients out there who think their lawyers are
just great. These four lawyer-client relationships are just examples — there are thousands upon thousands like them developing
and flourishing in Canada every day.
Howard Spalding
Barry Spalding, Saint John
ROD STEARS
I
n the trucking industry, road accidents can
happen at any time, day or night. That’s
why Howard Spalding gave his home
phone number to client Luc Marcoux of megatrucking firm Day & Ross. “I’ve never called
him in the middle of the night,” Marcoux
laughs. “But I do have all his numbers.”
Client Luc Marcoux (in-house counsel with
Marcoux, who is himself a lawyer (an inhouse counsel with Day & Ross), is currently
Day & Ross) with lawyer Howard Spalding
overseeing ongoing litigation across Canada
(Barry Spalding LLP), Saint John
and in the U.S. He first hired Spalding five
years ago to take over a lawsuit two short
“I’m not looking for a fancy opinion. I’m looking for
weeks before trial. “I’m not looking for a fancy
a great result. And Howard did a great job for us.”
opinion,” he explains. “I look for a good
result. And Howard did a great job for us.”
« Je ne veux pas d’un avocat qui se cache derrière
Plus, says Marcoux, he’s always calm.
une opinion recherchée. C’est le résultat qui compte
“Things don’t faze Howard. It’s good. You
et Howard a fait un très bon travail. »
need someone to calm you down from time
to time.”
Spalding himself used to drive transport
in a helping profession, providing valued services to their trucks before he became a lawyer, and this skill set comes in
clients. It’s easy to lose sight of this fact, however, in part handy. “He understands the terminology,” says Marcoux. “If he
because it’s the disgruntled clients — not the gruntled ones — has to meet a client who is a truck driver, he knows how to talk
who tend make their views known the most loudly.
to them. It makes things a lot easier for us.”
Law society disciplinary hearings tell everyone about the
This client relationship is actually second-generation:
lawyer-client relationships that went bad. But what about Marcoux’s father first employed Spalding as a trucker, to haul
the great number that go very well every day, that have freight for the family construction business. Driving the big rigs
evolved into strong, trusting, win-win relationships between “sort of gets in your blood,” Spalding says. Even after he
SEPTEMBRE
2005
www.cba.org
21
Lawyer Norman Yusim (Fillmore & Riley) with
client Leila Whitney, Winnipeg
“Since I’ve hired him, I’ve had little or no headaches. He handles all of my cares and concerns.”
« Je considère Yusim comme mon bras droit. Il
explique tout de façon claire et concise. »
became a lawyer, he still did it on occasion, and at one point he
purchased an 18-wheeler and operated it as a sideline.
Spalding doesn’t drive the rigs anymore, but he agrees that
his on-the-road experience gives him a “better understanding
from the driver’s perspective. I know what it’s like to drive
those things. And it’s not easy.”
Spalding went into law because he liked the idea of helping
people, and he’s glad he made the career move. “Law has been
marvellous,” he says. “I really enjoy it. I have no desire to retire.”
He figures that practising in New Brunswick, a close-knit province of some 800,000 inhabitants, is “a bit different than Bay
Street,” in that it’s easier to make friends with clients. “I’ve met
some wonderful people and made lasting friendships,” he says.
Camaraderie is essential, Marcoux agrees. “I like to have
lawyers I can chat with, kid around a bit, and eventually meet
them and have a good relationship with them, so that if I need
to call them at three o’clock in the morning because I have a
catastrophic accident, it’s no big deal.”
Marcoux sees only one problem: “Howard’s good, very
responsive. The only thing is — the more I spread the word
about that, the less available he might be for me!”
Norman Yusim
Fillmore & Riley, Winnipeg
22
NATIONAL
SEPTEMBER
2005
ROBERT TINKER
“I
f somebody told a lawyer joke, I laughed,” says Michael
Johnson, who hired Winnipeg family lawyer Norman
Yusim to handle his divorce. “I never had anything
much to do with lawyers until I had to go through this.
“The average Joe Blow going through a divorce has no idea
what the laws are, what you have to do, what’s expected, or
anything like that,” he continues. “Norm walked me right
through it. I can’t say enough good about him.”
One thing Johnson particularly appreciates about Yusim is
his telephone policy: all calls are returned within 24 hours.
Plus, his outgoing phone message is always updated to apprise
callers of his whereabouts.
“You phone him,” says Johnson, “and if you get his answering machine, it tells you whether he’s going to be in court for
the morning, so then you know not to expect a call until the
afternoon. His service is top-notch.”
Johnson adds that Yusim is a comforting, steady presence
during the turmoil of divorce. “It’s a stressful time in your life.
But Norm’s as cool as a cucumber.”
Sheri Perkins, another of Yusim’s clients, agrees. “Norm has
been an amazing support while I’ve been going through my
divorce,” she says. “It has not been amicable — very, very
stressful. Norm has a very calming way about him.”
She says Yusim is “perceptive enough to know when he has
to pull me off the ceiling when something’s going wrong.
“We’ve gone through a lot, and I’ve got good strong family support — but if it hadn’t been for Norm calming me
down many, many times, and talking me through things and
Satisfaction
garantie
garantie
Des clients satisfaits des services de leurs
conseillers juridiques? Ça existe!
L
e cauchemar de plusieurs
s’est transformé en véritable
rêve pour Norman Yusim, un
juriste en droit de la famille
de Winnipeg. Son client est
entré en contact avec la Société du Barreau
du Manitoba pour déposer… un compliment!
Les relations entre client et avocat qui
tournent au vinaigre ont bonne presse.
Pourtant, nombreux sont les clients qui ne
tarissent pas d’éloges envers leur conseiller
juridique. Plusieurs ont su bâtir, avec leur
avocat, une relation de confiance durable où
les deux parties sont gagnantes. National
vous présente quatre juristes très appréciés
et leurs clients satisfaits.
Howard Spalding
Barr y Spalding, Saint John
D
ans l’industrie du camionnage, les
accidents peuvent survenir à toute
heure. Howard Spalding a donc laissé son
numéro à domicile à son client, Luc Marcoux,
de la compagnie de camionnage Day & Ross.
« Je ne l’ai jamais appelé au milieu de la nuit »,
raconte toutefois Marcoux en riant.
La très bonne relation d’affaires entre
Marcoux et Spalding a débuté lorsque
Marcoux, lui-même avocat et conseiller
juridique chez Day & Ross, a requis les services de Spalding deux semaines avant le
début d’un procès. Dans une pareille situation, Marcoux ne veux pas d’un avocat qui se
cache derrière une longue opinion recherchée.
« C’est le résultat qui compte, et Howard a fait
un très bon travail ». Il lui a donné d’autres
mandats par la suite.
Louangeant son sang-froid et sa connaissance de l’industrie — Spalding a déjà été
camionneur— Marcoux souligne l’importance
pour un avocat de savoir comment communiquer avec ses clients. « Ça rend les choses
plus faciles pour nous », affirme-t-il.
Spalding a choisi de poursuivre une carrière en droit parce qu’il voulait aider les
SEPTEMBRE
2005
gens. Il croit qu’il est plus facile de fraterniser avec ses clients lorsque l’on pratique
au Nouveau-Brunswick. « Ce n’est pas Bay
Street », lance-t-il.
D’ailleurs, la camaraderie est essentielle
pour qu’une relation entre avocat et client
réussisse, estime Marcoux. « J’aime pouvoir
discuter et rigoler un peu avec les juristes
que j’engage. »
Norman Yusim
Fillmore & Riley, Winnipeg
M
ichael Johnson n’avait jamais eu
affaire à un avocat avant son
divorce. « La personne moyenne qui est aux
prises avec un divorce ne connaît pas les lois
et ne sait pas à quoi s’attendre », affirme-t-il.
« Norm m’a guidé à travers tout ça. »
Johnson a particulièrement apprécié la
politique de retour d’appel de Yusim : tous
les appels sont retournés dans un délai de
24 heures. Yusim informe aussi toujours ses
clients de ses allés et venues. « Et si on
tombe sur son répondeur, il nous dit s’il est
à la cour le matin, explique-t-il. On ne s’attend pas alors à un retour d’appel avant
l’après-midi. »
Johnson insiste également sur la présence rassurante de Yusim durant les moments difficiles d’un divorce. « Norm garde
son sang-froid ».
Une autre cliente, Leila Whitney, considère
que Yusim est son bras droit. Il s’assure que
ses clients comprennent l’évolution de leur
dossier, souligne-t-elle. « Il explique tout de
façon claire et concise », dit-elle.
Pour Yusim, cela est tout à fait normal.
« C’est mon travail », fait valoir le principal
intéressé. « Les clients ne savent pas toujours que l’on a fait du bon travail même si
nous le savons, observe-t-il. Les gens déboursent de grosses sommes pour les services d’un avocat et ne savent pas à quoi
s’attendre. C’est à nous de leur donner ce
qu’il leur faut. »
www.cba.org
Jeff Hayes, Mark Standerwick,
Sarah Mamoser
Campbell Froh May & Rice
Richmond, C.-B.
S
elon un sondage effectué en 2005 pour le
compte de l’Association canadienne des
conseillers et conseillères juridiques d’entreprises, 62% des conseillers juridiques d’entreprise estiment que les connaissances pratiques
concernant les affaires de l’entreprise sont ce
qui importe le plus lorsqu’ils choisissent de
faire affaire avec un juriste en pratique privée.
Marie-France Leroi, avocate principale
chez Terasen, une compagnie de gaz naturel
de Vancouver, est particulièrement ravie des
services qui lui sont fournis par ses avocats
Jeff Hayes et Mark Standerwick, et par la stagiaire Sarah Mamoser, du cabinet Campbell
Froh May & Rice.
Terasen est souvent mêlée à des litiges
concernant des servitudes sur des terrains où
passent ses pipelines. Hayes s’est chargé de
plusieurs de ces dossiers. « Jeff connaît nos
ingénieurs et il est familier avec les enjeux »,
remarque Leroi. « Si je dois tout expliquer à
quelqu’un, autant faire le travail moi-même».
Pour bien connaître cette industrie, Hayes
se réfère d’abord à ses clients. « Des enseignants expérimentés, les ingénieurs de
Terasen, m’ont tout appris. »
Mark Opashinov
McMillan Binch Mendelsohn, Toronto
M
ark Opashinov peut parler intelligemment de peinture, de résine
ou de mousse. C’est ce qui le rend tellement
précieux aux yeux de Shadi Dastranj, conseillère juridique chez BASF Canada, une compagnie de produits chimiques.
« Au fil des ans, Mark s’est familiarisé
avec les divers secteurs de notre production »,
remarque Dastranj. « Il a eu à intervenir
directement avec les hommes d’affaires de
notre entreprise et je n’ai entendu que des
commentaires positifs. »
Pour Dastranj, il est important de connaître le marché et savoir poser les bonnes
questions. Pour Opashinov, il s’agit simplement de faire preuve de curiosité. « Il s’agit
d’une compagnie très intéressante », affirme-t-il.
Dastranj apprécie aussi la touche personnelle que Opashinov ajoute à son service.
« Ça peut paraître un peu ridicule, explique-telle, mais Mark vous fait toujours sentir que
vous passez en premier, que vous êtes son
seul client même s’il en a des centaines. »
Pourquoi les clients de ces juristes sont si
heureux? « Le service, le service et encore le
service », répond Opashinov. Gageons que
ses collègues en pensent tout, autant. N
— Yves Faguy
23
24
NATIONAL
SEPTEMBER
2005
LURENDA MASTROMONACO
making sure I’m making an
Client Marie-France LeRoi (in house counsel with Terasen Inc., Vancouver)
educated decision, not one
with Mark Standerwick, Jeff Hayes & Sarah Mamoser
that runs just on emotion,
things wouldn’t have gone
(Campbell Froh May & Rice, Richmond, B.C.)
nearly as well as they have.”
Perkins says she doesn’t
“The most important thing is: do you know your stuff? If I have to spend a lot of
know many lawyers, but Yusim
time teaching somebody something, I might as well just do it myself.”
has given her a new perspective
and respect for the profession.
« Le plus important pour moi est que l’avocat connaisse son sujet à fond.
“I’m only speaking from my
Si je dois tout expliquer à quelqu’un, autant faire le travail moi-même. »
experience with Norm — he
really cares about his clients,”
she says. “I have nothing but praise for him. You hear so many on as the case progresses, she adds. “He explains everything
lawyer jokes. Norm’s just changed my opinion.”
very clearly and concisely. And no question is dumb. He always
When Leila Whitney’s marriage broke down, her friends rec- makes sure I’m always right there alongside him.
ommended Yusim to her. “Norman is like my right-hand man,”
“There was a time we were in a case conference, and I was
she says. “Since I hired him, I’ve had little or no headaches. He starting to get quite upset because I couldn’t follow exactly
handles all of my cares and concerns. If I’m stressed out about what they were talking about. The lawyers were going back and
the legal aspect of this, I know I can call Norm and he calls me forth with the judge talking about finances. So I sat back in my
back within minutes, maybe within the hour, depending on chair. And just from my body language, Norm knew I was getwhat his work schedule is.”
ting distraught.
Yusim also makes sure his clients understand what’s going
“So he just stopped everything and leaned across and asked
me: ‘Are you okay?’ I told him I didn’t know what they were
talking about — they had totally lost me. So he asked the judge
for a minute and he took me aside. He explained everything.”
Yusim remains modest about all the praise he gets. “It’s my
job,” he says. “Sometimes clients won’t know if you’ve done a
good job or not for them — but you know you’ve done a good
job for them. And that’s what people want. They’re paying a lot
of money for lawyers. Often, they don’t even know what they
expect. But that’s what I give them.”
Interestingly, Yusim may soon garner another glowing phone
call. Says Michael Johnson: “I’m going to phone the law society. I
don’t know if they have awards to recognize lawyers like Norm.”
they place fill in the land. And when they do that, the pipe goes
up.” This often leads to litigation.
Typically, the issue will involve a right-of-way obtained by
Terasen for its gas pipeline that restricts the landowner from
dumping fill. The landowner often counters with the assertion
that the pipe is too fragile, or that they can put fill on their land
if they feel like it.
“Jeff understands our pipes,” she says. “He knows our engineers, and he knows the issues involved. To me, that’s the most
important thing: Do you know your stuff? If I have to spend a
lot of time teaching somebody something, I might as well just
do it myself.
“With somebody like Jeff, you can call them up, and they
Jeff Hayes, Mark Standerwick,
Sarah Mamoser
Campbell Froh May & Rice
Richmond, B.C.
A
ccording to the “In-House
Counsel Barometer,” a 2005 survey of 1,187 in-house lawyers
conducted by the Canadian Corporate
Counsel Association (and sponsored by
Davies Ward Phillips & Vineberg), 62%
of in-house lawyers said that when it
comes to hiring outside counsel, they
look for a lawyer with a good working
knowledge of the company’s business.
So when Marie-France Leroi, Senior
Solicitor with gas company Terasen in
Vancouver, needs an outside lawyer, she
targets someone who will understand
the challenges her company faces. One
such challenge is gas pipelines, and how
they behave.
“We work with a whole bunch of really great lawyers,” she says. “And I hesitate
to single out anybody, but if you want an
example, I can tell you that Campbell
Froh May & Rice do great work for us.” In
particular, Leroi gives the nod to lawyers
Jeff Hayes and Mark Standerwick, as well
as articling student Sarah Mamoser, who
divides her work week between the firm
and Terasen’s offices.
“Sarah is very bright and enthusiastic,” says Leroi. “She turns around work
very quickly and somehow manages to
balance her files from Campbell Froh
May & Rice with our work very gracefully. She never lets me down, and from
what I’ve heard from Jeff, her principal,
she doesn’t let them down either.”
Jeff Hayes does a lot of expropriation
work for Terasen and has handled some
important litigation. “These are cases
where people have been doing work on
their land, through which our pipeline
passes,” Leroi explains.
“In Richmond and Surrey, the land is
quite soft, boggy and swampy,” she says.
“People are trying to develop those areas
for housing or for light industrial use, so
SEPTEMBRE
2005
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25
Mark Opashinov,
McMillan Binch Mendelsohn,
Toronto (client Shadi
Dastranj, in-house counsel with
BASF Canada, unavailable)
“Mark absolutely loves what he
does. He’s always very enthusiastic and passionate.”
know the issues as well as you do,” Leroi continues. “So you can
have a chat and get a second opinion, whether it’s a formal written opinion or just a chat that takes five minutes. It makes you
feel more comfortable about the decision you make.”
Hayes also excels in customer service, adds Leroi. “He
returns calls promptly. I’ve got the number for his cabin where
he’s on vacation right now. But for me, the most important
thing is — do you know your stuff? Jeff does.”
How does he know it? He listens to his clients. “My gas
pipeline education came at the hands of several exceptional
and knowledgeable teachers — the pipeline engineers at
Terasen, who have always been very generous with their time,”
says Hayes. “While in law school, I never would have imagined
that I would be doing this kind of work — or how genuinely
interesting it continues to be.”
That dedication to the client’s interests is reflected in articling
student Sarah Mamoser’s approach to her work. “It’s tempting to
write a six-page memo to show you’ve done all the background
research, but for the client, a simple paragraph may suffice,”
says Mamoser, whose philosophy is simple: “Give practical
advice that recognizes the constraints of the client’s industry.”
Mark Opashinov
McMillan Binch Mendelsohn, Toronto
W
ith a host of products ranging from chemicals and
polymers to automotive and industrial coatings,
BASF, the world’s largest chemical company, employs
lawyers who need to know a whole lot about a wide range of
topics. In turn, those lawyers look for outside counsel who fit
that same bill.
So Shadi Dastranj, Assistant General Counsel for BASF Canada,
looks for outside counsel who can sit down and talk intelligently
26
about paint, resin, insecticide, or foam.
One of the lawyers who can do this is
Mark Opashinov of McMillan Binch
Mendelsohn in Toronto.
“What I’ve found with Mark over
the years is that he has really gotten to
know our various business areas,” says
Dastranj. “On some occasions, he has
dealt directly with the business people
in our company, and I’ve received positive comments.”
For instance, making and selling
agricultural products such as pesticides and herbicides presents
some complicated and sophisticated marketing issues. “Let’s
say from a competition standpoint, you might have an issue
with the marketing of a particular product and co-branding it
with a competitive product,” Dastranj says.
“You have to get to know the in’s and out’s of the market,
what each product does, what it controls. It’s a very specific
type of questioning that you have to do. And I’ve been on conference calls with Mark and our businesspeople where he’s really been able to go through those detailed questions. He does a
really good job.”
Dastranj adds that “Mark absolutely loves what he does.
He’s always very enthusiastic and passionate.” Indeed, getting
to know the workings of the various divisions of BASF satisfies
Opashinov’s innate curiosity. “It’s really quite an interesting
company,” he says.
He speaks enthusiastically about another BASF product,
foam insulation. “I once toured the factory,” he says. “It’s
really cool. There’s a whole area that just makes foam. There
are people in the company whose lives are foam. They’re
experts in foam. Remarkable.” When he was in law school,
Opashinov says, he never envisioned himself in a hard hat
touring a foam-making facility discussing tiny bubbles. “It’s
quite neat,” he says.
The one other aspect that Dastranj really appreciates about
Opashinov is client focus. “It sounds a bit cheesy,” she says,
“but Mark always makes you feel like you’re the number-one
client, even though he’s got hundreds. It makes you feel good.”
So how does he do it? Opashinov’s message, echoing those
of his fellow professionals across the country, is simple and
clear: “Service, service, service.” N
......................................................................................................
Bill Rogers is a Toronto-based freelance legal writer.
NATIONAL
SEPTEMBER
2005
KIRK M C GREGOR
« Mark vous fait toujours sentir
que vous passez en premier, que
vous êtes son seul client même
s’il en a des centaines. »